Why are kids killing kids?


If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words? People kill people, we have heard it a hundred times, but it is true.

According to Sen. Feinstein, so-called “assault” weapons have been used in 385 murders since the assault weapons ban expired in 2004, or about 48 per year. But, there were 8,583 total murders with guns in the United States in 2011, meaning the so-called “assault” weapons were used 0.6 percent of the time.

Furthermore, the FBI database shows that 323 murders were committed with rifles of any kind in 2011. In comparison, 496 murders were committed with hammers and clubs, and 1,694 were perpetrated with knives.

I was a police officer for 29 years and I am here to tell you the police can’t react quick enough to stop a criminal from breaking into your home to do harm to you or your family.

I own “assault” rifles and I hunt with all of them. One rifle saved me from being mauled by a bear. After I retired I used an “assault” rifle to stop two burglars from entering the home of my neighbor. Would our community be any safer if I was told I could not possess an “assault” rifle or I could not have a magazine containing more than 10 rounds? In both incidents I had an “assault” rifle and large capacity magazine, so I felt confident I could handle the situation.

Let’s get the definition of an “assault” rifle in perspective. It’s a semi-automatic rifle, with a flash suppressor, a pistol grip and maybe a folding stock. Other than these options that affect the way the weapon “looks,” they function the same as any other semi-automatic rifle, pistol or shotgun does; you pull the trigger fire one shot, pull the trigger again and fire another shot.

What is the solution to saving our kids? I don’t know, but do you dismiss having armed guards in schools or having armed teachers? After 9/11 we placed armed federal officers on airplanes, and sent pilots to school and taught them to shoot. My neighbor is an armed pilot for a major airlines. I’m glad he has a gun.

When I was in high school a lot of us had guns in our vehicles. No one thought about killing our classmates. We live in a different time, we need to figure out why our kids are killing kids.

Mike Davis

Walla Walla



chicoli says...

Mike, I appreciate your letter in that you did not insult those of us who disagree with you. When I was in high school there were less than 200,000 guns out there and cero legal military type weapons allowed in private hands. Now there are 300 millions weapons out there. Of those there are a substantial amount of ilegal ones sold without background checks by sleazy gun dealers , and at gun shows parking lots.

Today, in the US, 35 people (including 7 children ) are killed A DAY, the same amount killed in England ( with a gun ban) in a year!

So, people with guns kill people more frequently and more effectively than by other means. Less guns, like in England, Australia and Germany, less killings. It is simple arithmetics, Mike. People with less guns kill substantially less people.

As a retired police officer I believe you would not want your fellow active police friends outguned by criminals with high power "technology" weapons. Let's regulate them to prevent or minimize such a possibility from happening ever again.

Not too long ago an airline pilot had to be restrained and taken out of the airplane kicking and screaming. Think for a second the carnage that could have result had he had a gun with him. I'm glad just a few pilots fly airplanes intoxicated with drugs or alcohol, not a good combination if you add a gun!

In Heller Justice Scalia ( hardly a liberal) rendered the opinion that the second ammendment guarantees the right to bear arms... but not all kinds of arms! Read it yourself.

Posted 24 January 2013, 7:24 p.m. Suggest removal

carcrazy says...

Paco, when did you go to high school, 1840? You say that there were cero legal military type weapons allowed in private hands, but I know you are completely wrong on that assertion. I don't know just quite where you get your propaganda from but you definitely don't have the correct information.
Also, what exactly did you do in the military? I can bet that it didn't have anything to do with weapons. Tell me, do you still think that PTSD doesn't exist?

Posted 24 January 2013, 7:45 p.m. Suggest removal

chicoli says...

I appreciate your moderate, a bit more civil tone in your disagreement. You are nevertheless still grumpy and negativistc. Moreover your have the tendency to turn your bitterness into personalized insults adding nothing to the civility of the discurse but a lot to the understanding of the person who originates them.

Starting my military career in the US Air Force in 1958 I got out in 1962 to go to medical school and then to practice medicine in Family Practice. I rejoined the military as an officer, completed 26 years and retired as a LTC with the Meritorious Service Medal. I represented the US in 10 countries and graduated from the Air War College and from the Aerospace Medicine School as a Flight Surgeon. I did combat medicine in Basnia treating combat pilots. I've taken dozens of courses in PTSD and, as I've always believed PTSD exist, I still go around the country treating veterans at many VA Hospitals. I know quite a bit about gun related wounds as I've repeatedly studied them from the surgical point of view. Therein the reason I hate guns with all my medical instincts.

I belive in having the opportunity to debate various issues about how to improve this country and I bring to the table quite a proffesional and sensible contribution. I've earned my rights to be present at the forum. The man who belives he can intimidate me out of this arena has not been born yet.

Posted 25 January 2013, 9:32 a.m. Suggest removal

carcrazy says...

Yes Paco, I tend to be grumpy and negative, especially when it comes to sheeple that have no common sense. I find it rather humorous that given your disdain for law enforcement officers, there are 4 of the same in this very forum that disagree with your view on firearms. It really says a lot when a cop says NO to banning firearms.
I would like to hear your thoughts on the correlation between teen shooters and their use of anti-depressants.

Posted 26 January 2013, 3:08 p.m. Suggest removal

chicoli says...

Rene, Rene... you are very good at hiding your contempt and bitterness when in person. I've been retired from the VA for 6 years now. As a SC veteran, and as a VA Physician (and you as a nurse) you did help me in a couple of occations. I trusted you as you appeared to be very caring and gracious.

You are still misinterpreting my protected, confidential record as a VA employee. How you got into my personal records is a big question you will have to answer to proper authorities. This is a serious federal violation.

Lastly I must say I'm very disappointed as for all these years I trusted you as a professional nurse when in reality you were feing your charm and sincerity. I believe now that at the time you were deceiving a fellow professional and this is just not good.

Posted 26 January 2013, 8:21 p.m. Suggest removal

carcrazy says...

Paco, You are very mistaken in who you believe is writing under the name carcrazy. It is NOT Rene!

Posted 27 January 2013, 3:04 p.m. Suggest removal

carcrazy says...

Mike is spot on with this commentary. This issue should not be about guns because even if guns are removed from the equation, these same kids would have found a way to cause the destruction they each caused. The Columbine shooters had improvised explosive devices made from propane tanks, why aren't the squimish ones trying to outlaw those too? Removing any firearm from the law abiding is not an option, correcting social problems is a big step toward a solution.

Posted 24 January 2013, 7:38 p.m. Suggest removal

pdywgn says...

"Technology weapons"? What technology? Elevation and windage knobs? The invention of the front sight post? Smokeless powder? The root cause of these incidents is consistantly mental illness with a history of contacts with mental health professionals that were negligent in treatment. Here is a thought for you Paco. Make Mental Health Professionals culpable for their lack of treatment. Contracting with the mentally ill that they won't harm themselves or others is not worth the paper it is printed on, but twenty seven counts of wrongful death against the providers that would not commit Lanza would be a good start to finally putting some responsibility into the field of mental health. Mike Davis had to accept responsibility for his actions every day on the job and I'm sure dealt with the mentally ill and the road blocks put up by the supposed mental health professionals. His car and house were on the line every day and mental health providers should be too.

Posted 25 January 2013, 4:10 a.m. Suggest removal

Iopine says...

paco - your numbers on shootings sound like the stats that are from gun free zones!

Posted 25 January 2013, 6:05 a.m. Suggest removal

mtnthc says...

Being conservative is a form of mental illness

Posted 25 January 2013, 10:39 a.m. Suggest removal

carcrazy says...


Posted 25 January 2013, 1:19 p.m. Suggest removal

mwood says...

I believe the entire point is that banning firearms is an emotional irrational reaction.
When I went to high school, the 1970's, I always had a firearm in my vehicle because my buddy and I would go hunting before school and after. We never contemplated taking our guns into school and shooting people. We need to treat the behavior. The manner in which society ignores people with mental illness is a huge part of the current problem we have. Society also has been very quick to excuse people's bad behavior. Banning guns or "only some" guns is not the answer.

Posted 25 January 2013, 2:33 p.m. Suggest removal

pdywgn says...

There was one F-16, one F-18 and two predator drones lost to combat by the U.S. in Bosnia or as Paco calls it Basnia. The F-18 was lost over the Adriatic and the pilot was killed. The F-16 pilot was Capt. Scott O'Grady and he was rescued by a USMC CH-53E Super Stallion Helicopter assigned to the USS Kearsage parented by HMH-466 Wolfpack. it sustained minor damage to enemy fire. So I'm guessing there wasn't a whole lot of pilots needing fixing. The Meritorious Service Medal is impressive in that it is awarded to just about everyone that achieves the rank of LtCol. in the Air Force.

Posted 28 January 2013, 9:34 p.m. Suggest removal

chicoli says...

My previous comment was for carcrazy. This one is for the well versed pdywgn! What a guy! He even knows how to spell "Bosnia". All pilots and all other flying status staff needs a physical, monitoring of all medical needs, shots, and the longitudinal, constant survailance of the public health envelope to secure the prevention of morbidities that could interfeere with the task of operating a sophisticated F-16 or a KC 135 with 100 thousand pounds of fuel, and still be able to do a midair refulling repeatedly. Flight medicine has to do with proper diet, sanitation of base facilities, safety of flying equipment and many other environmental medicine variables. My Flight Surgeon's patch reads this way "Volantis Subvenimus" meaning to care for those who fly. This is what I meant when I said "to treat combat pilots" obviously in the context of preventive medicine. We do not "fix" pilots, we prevent having to fix pilots.The merit was precisely in that " there wasn't a whole lot of pilots needing treatment". What an achievement, my friend (pdywgn).

I hope this clarification will calm pdywgn's pretentious, self assertive, wisecracking show a bit down. For a minority from Puerto Rico to achieve the rank of LTC in the US AF is meritorious enough. And for pdywgn to minimized such and achievement with his smart alecky remarks is cheap enough.

Posted 29 January 2013, 11:26 p.m. Suggest removal

bj84711 says...

Paco your stats on gun violence in Britain may be true but overall violent crime over there far exceeds violent crime in the USA. Check it out. So therefore banning guns does not reduce violence!

Posted 30 January 2013, 9:41 a.m. Suggest removal

chicoli says...

Banning certain weapons, as they did in England 10 years ago, would eventualy reduce the amount of dead people by 29,000 or so a year. Violence per se does not always result in dead people. Add 300 millions of guns to our less-than-in-England violent population and the amount of dead people adds up quite fast.

But the most salient point is that by improving back ground checks, preventing ilegal sales at gun shows and registering guns is an easy way to prevent "bad guys" from getting hold of guns. Ninety percent of the American people are in favor of such checks!

Posted 1 February 2013, 7:39 p.m. Suggest removal

pdywgn says...

Technology Weapons?

Posted 1 February 2013, 5:23 p.m. Suggest removal

chicoli says...

Wayne La Pierre frequently uses the euphemism of "technology weapons" to minimize and deviate attention away from the real inhumane, nasty killing power of assault weapons. He also calls them "the tool" or "the instrument" with the same deceiving purpose. He likes the slogan of " guns do not kill people, people kill people" . Well, in the US people with 300 million guns kill 30,000 people a year. People WITH GUNS kill a heck of a lot of people; without guns, not that many!

Posted 1 February 2013, 8:05 p.m. Suggest removal

barracuda says...

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005.
The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed.
About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes. Way many more people are killed by auto's every day then by guns!
Yet you, Paco, get into a vehical every day! It sound like alot of peaple are killed by cars too!

Even the V.P. says it is a joke!
See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01...

Lets just inforce the rules we have now! New laws wont change much!

Posted 1 February 2013, 10:26 p.m. Suggest removal

chicoli says...

Automobiles are safer than ever, they have airbags, gas tanks are less vulnerable and seat belts are mandatory. Overall the modern crashworthiness of cars is superb in comparison to the one from 20 years ago! Statistics from accidents is a constant preocupation the goverment follows without obstruction from car manufacturers. Car manufacturers do their own crashworthiness test in partnership with the federal government. Liability insurance is mandatory and every single victim from car accidents is fully covered. You need a drivers license and a physical examination to prove your ability to opperate a vehicle. We are mandated to stay within the regulated speed limit.

Both deaths from automobiles and from guns need to be reduced. If by establishing a NATIONAL gun registration program we manage to save the life of one child, this effort alone is worthwhile trying.

Posted 2 February 2013, 7:34 p.m. Suggest removal

barracuda says...

You missed my point.... More people died today by automobiles then died today by guns... Yes cars are made better today.... But, really bad cars are driven by really bad drivers (and maybe illegal) ... But, you drive in and around them every day...
Also, did you see the post about Mr. Bidden? Even he dosent think new laws will do what you hope it will do!
There are laws that makes buying guns by certain people already illegal, some people cant buy them but, yet they get them somehow! How is more laws going to change this fact? If you can explain to me how we can win this battle.... (getting the guns out of reach of the idiots who want to do harm to others) I will agree with this new set of laws....BUT, there is NO WAY we can get them away from them now... There is thousands already out here in the public, and they can be obtained by the idiots at anytime.... Internet can still deliver parts and pieces of anytype of guns delivered to anybody, anytime, and anywhere.... We cant stop every delivery of every package to inspect for illegal items...

Posted 2 February 2013, 8:17 p.m. Suggest removal

pdywgn says...

Every officer I ever knew that started out enlisted counted the Good Conduct Medal as their favorite, because officers can't earn it. All I did Paco was state that the MSM was pretty much given out for exactly what it was, the Meritorious SERVICE Medal. You are the one jumping onto some sort of race card game. I didn't know you were Puerto Rican, nor does that matter to me.

Posted 1 February 2013, 10:53 p.m. Suggest removal

Iopine says...

Did you read where the Sandy Hook school has hired armed security! I guess the NRA was right one.

Posted 3 February 2013, 3:08 p.m. Suggest removal

pdywgn says...

I read somewhere that all the kids had transferred to another school for the rest of the year.

Posted 3 February 2013, 11:08 p.m. Suggest removal

Iopine says...

Sorry - I was using Sandy Hook as a reference point so I should have been a little more specific. Some of the schools over in that area have hired armed security but I couldn't find out how many. I was just referring how a lot of the schools are following the lead of having armed security on campus.

Posted 5 February 2013, 6:29 a.m. Suggest removal

Questionall says...

Our kids see violence every day on tv, video games, sometimes even at home or in their community. They are becoming immune to the consequences of actions - that tv character shows up in another show, the video game resets itself, life goes on. Technology doesn't give a cooling off period from the bully at school, the teacher who made a comment in class, etc. Your upset with someone? Text them, facebook them, call them, email them, etc. and spread it to others at the speed of light. I for one am thankful that I was able to have my high school years without all of these advances ~ nobody called my home after 8pm, I didn't have my own computer or cellphone to make fun of somebody else or have someone make fun of me, and I was held accountable for my actions. Several folks had guns in the gun racks of the old truck - you might get a chance to go hunting before or after school, it was never a thought to threaten someone else with it. Our kids have less and less stable home lifes, poor role models, and more social pressures than ever before. Mental health support isn't keeping up. Our society needs to step up to the plate as parents and mentors ~ saving our kids starts at home.

Posted 5 February 2013, 11:10 a.m. Suggest removal

Iopine says...

Questionall - When I was going to that one room school room packing my pencil and tablet (I was to young to drive - couldn't reach the peddles) we didn't have a TV but a radio and that went off at 8pm. Your right - now give these students a pencil and a piece of paper and without there little Iphone or Ipads (whatever) they couldn't figure out a little arithmetic. They are really soft now days!

Posted 5 February 2013, 6:11 p.m. Suggest removal

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